Friday, September 30, 2016

SONG OF SOLOMON DISCUSSION BOARD 1 - PERIOD 6

Chapter 5 (and before)


Before this chapter and even after, Milkman is often a passive character who is hard to pin down, in terms of personality and values.  We get some insight during this chapter here.  As you RE-READ, think about Milkman as a character, especially considering his relationship with Hagar and his conversation with Guitar (102-106) in this chapter:

To what extent is Milkman himself responsible for feeling that his life is “boring” and “pointless” (107)?  To what extent is his family, his circumstances, and his community to blame?

BE CLEAR AND SPECIFIC IN YOUR RESPONSE. OFFER EMBEDDED TEXT EVIDENCE AS SUPPORT WITH COMMENTARY. 

21 comments:

  1. Milkman is largely responsible for feeling that his life is “boring” and “pointless.” Milkman assumed that “he was going to spend the rest of his life doing just that (real estate; thinking about rents and property).” He did not have anything “he wanted bad[ly] enough to risk anything for, inconvenience himself for.” Although he had no desire to continue working for his father, he did not do anything to change that fact. It is one’s own responsibility to take control of their lives and strive for what they have a desire and passion for. Despite having a father who pushed him to follow in his footsteps, Milkman should still stand up for his wants and needs rather than “aimlessly” follow and live a “pointless” life.

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    1. I both agree and disagree with how he perceives his life and whose fault it is that he sees his life as such. I view thing in at least 2 ways, in this case, I see how it is his fault that his life is “boring” or “pointless”. but I also she how it’s not his fault and how the blame could be placed on Macon II or Macon I because they pass on to their kids what they know and they knew how “to own possessions and how to make the things they own, own other things”(ch.2 pg. 55). So he was brought up to think and act a certain way, and the way he thinks is not subjected to living a fun or meaningful life. It is the opposite of the way Pilate live, young, wild, and free. For instance, when Macon got it in his mind to teach Milkman the family business (in chapter 2 also pg.55) it was the begging of the end.

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  2. Milkman himself has little responsibility for the feelings that life is “boring” and “pointless.” The greatest impact for his feelings are his environment and family that made him feel this way. When Guitar tells Milkman that he is a serious person, milkman retort that “serious is just another word for miserable.” He gets this idea from watching how his family is serious but unhappy will doing things around the house. Milkman also unconsciously tries to follow his father’s words and actions. This is seen when he thinks that “his father would help him find,” a good wife, someone suitable for him. His father’s words have a great impact on how Milkman thinks and what he believes. Milkman has little to do with what he believes and feels because everyone around him is influencing him.

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  3. I would have to agree with Tiara when she said that Milkman is responsible because he assumed that "he was going to spend the rest of his life doing just that (real estate)". But I also believe that the atmosphere of the community in which Milkman lived. It was all too familiar and everyone knew him and his family. Milkman knew " he was very much the eligible bachelor to the Honore crowd". He believed that "there had to be something better to look forward to" something beyond his "[boring city]". No matter how much he accomplished in the town it wouldn't feel like much because of where Milkman is and who his family is.

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  6. Milkman has no fault in the way he was raised or the way he feels. He believes that his whole family is serious and miserable. He mentions that he's never heard her mother laugh and describes a "dream" he had of his mother and how her plants were smothering her. With this he "emphasizes his point about the dangers of seriousness”. Milkman doesn’t want to live in his father’s shadow and was definitely not interested in his father’s business, and if he “had to spend the rest of his life thinking about rents and property, he’d lose his mind.” However oppressed he may feel by his own father, Milkman should take control of his life which is what he was trying to do when he set off to look for the cave of the dead man looking for the gold. But to him the gold was not actual, physical gold but the gold of finding who he is and defining himself without the prying critical eye of his father or the rest of his family. Milkman was in deep thought when thinking about the things that interested him. He thought he could get a wife “and… and what?” Even MIlkman doesn’t know what lies ahead of him and the thinking about it made him realize that his life is just as boring and repetitive as Guitar thinks. Milkman is now old enough to realize what he wants but his father wants to shape him a certain way so that he looks good in front of people, however Milkman seems to realize that he needs something to define him beside the luxuries and all things materialistic.

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  8. Milkman is unsatisfied with his life throughout his journey for "gold" he's constantly trying to find himself and throughout the novel continues to look behind and rarely focuses on his future.Along the way he is trying to find out what makes him happy,because he's constantly trying to fill the empty void he feels inside with materialistic things because that's what he was raised to do but none of those things can fulfill his actual problems. His family made a huge impact on his "boredom" , his parents created a very unstable environment. All his parents did was spoil him and made him believe materialistic things was way more important than true happiness, “to own possessions and how to make the things they own, own other things”. Macon wanted his son to take up what he did growing up and to value the flashy luxury lifestyle more than actual genuine happiness. Although Milkman tries his hardest to not be just like his father he does still has similar traits to him that are recognizable throughout the novel.

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  9. Milkman isn't fully responsible for his monotonous life, but he does contribute to it. He explains how he doesn't want to live in his "fathers shadows" any longer which seems to be the factor of why he lives this "boring" and "pointless" life, but even as he tries to escape from that he keeps looking back. Milkman has always sought the past and never the future even after Pilate explained to him that it wouldn't do him any good, and if his gold is finding himself, I don't believe he will gain that happiness because his history leads him back to his father, which is what he tries to leave behind but instead he seems to run back to. But Milkman isn't fully responsible, just look at how he was raised in riches not missing a thing, yet never happy nor satisfied. The reason he keeps on looking back is because he isn't sure what to look forward to, he only knows that "there had to be something to look forward to" but, what exactly? Everyone around him have influenced him to such a degree that is it his hard for him to find happiness or to be even know what it means to be happy.

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  10. The environment Milkman grew up in and himself are some of the contributes why he claims his life is “pointless” and “boring”.By refusing to accept life for what it actually is and letting others influence him in a materialistic way (comparing himself to others).When Guitar and Milkman were having a conversation, Guitar notice his behavior”That’s the problem Milkman.You're more interested in my tone than in what i’m saying.”(chap. 4 pg.103)This shows that your life is what you make it. Milkman is responsible for that. His actions caused him to push others way.Milkman tries to please others or acknowledge their flaws.He followed his father's footsteps, and showed nothing but disgust ”well, he was very good in his father’s business, for one thing .Excellent, in fact. But he had to spend the rest of his life thinking about rents and property,he’d lose his mind..”(chap. 4 ,pg. 107)Although Milkman is skilled like his father he doesn’t show enthusiasm for his father’s business.Milkman admitted why he was the way he was.If it was not interesting he did not put his time or effort towards it.Since he was born everything was given to him. In that case he never had to explore and find the needed, that's why he claims his life is “boring and “pointless” .
    (Alexa Larzeia)

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  11. Milkman’s “boredom” with his life comes from his refusal to accept life for what it is and his excessive laziness to try to do anything with himself. He believes that he should still be living life as if he was in his twenties once again. He wants everyone to find him and get in his good side to benefit both parties. But that’s the main problem Milkman is not putting in any work to better himself because he feels that there is nothing really worth the time or strength to try to fight for. As Morrison states, “There was nothing he wanted bad enough to risk anything for, inconvenience himself for”. (107) Milkman needs to put in some type of effort to make his life less boring and pointless. He is stuck in the mind frame of ME ME ME not me and my family or me and my friends. His only concern is sex and alcohol. Milkman constantly makes it known that he has no interest about what the recent drama is in town about murders and his friends committing crimes. He could easily involve himself with the community but he continues to be immature and stay under a rock. In the end his “boredom” “pointless” life all falls on him because he is making no effort to change his to the greater good.
    (Segan Drake)

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    1. I agree with Segan Drake, b/c not only Milkman's "boredom" comes from this refusal to accept life, but doesn't know what to do with it. Its like he wants people to spoon fed him things that he needs to be happy and successful in life, but his since he has grow up getting every materialistic thing. For example in chapter 4(pg 106-107) when he talking with Hager, Hager asks him when is h going to propose and Milkman say she going have to wait for a longtime. This illustrates how he gets the things he wants, gets bored and doesn't know what to do in this life.
      (Alex Esparza)

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  12. Milkman is responsible for feeling that his life is “boring” and “pointless”, but this feeling is brought about initially by his family and environment in which he grew up in. Milkman first describes his mother Ruth as “miserable” and his father and sisters as “serious” (chapter 4, pg. 104). Having no source of happiness at home, and constantly being presented with the idea that he should place an importance on “owning things”, Milkman remains as an emotionless character who is bored by everyone and everything. Once Milkman begins working for Macon, Macon views Milkman as his only, “his son belonged to him now” (pg. 63). Macon places an emphasis on materialistic value and instills this on Milkman. Milkman, similar to his father, treats Hagar as an object and eventually “gets tired of her”, choosing to end the relationship. He is first influenced by his family’s cold attitude, which affects him throughout the years. Having the capability to get rid of the “boredom” which consumes his life, Milkman has no drive to better his situation. - Fabiola Osorio

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  13. Milkman and his family are both at fault for Milkman living a "boring" and "pointless" life. Milkman no longer appreciates life or finds any happiness in it. Milkman shows us that he no longer wants to be together with Hagar or even be a part of her life. As christmas was getting closer Milkman looked for a gift to give to Hagar as he felt the need to. However he didn't want to "give her ideas of marriage", his intentions were more like a parting gift by which Hagar could remember him by. He is to blame because of his lack of commitment to relationships, once he got what he wanted, he no longer wanted it. His family is to blame as well since they never really showed Milkman how a healthy relationship looked like. -Bryan Zavala

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  14. The factor that is responsible for Milkman's "boring" and "pointless" life is his environment. Macon had already implanted a future in Milkman's mind in which Milkman will spend the rest of his life doing real estate(Page107). Milkman acknowledges that the social injustice happening in society has led to the city become boring leading Milkman to become someone different and not like Guitar(Page107). You can also argue that Milkman's attitude towards social injustice refers back to how he was raised and the environment he lives in; for example, at this point in the book Milkman hasn't faces any sort of discrimination compared to Guitar who lives in Southside and is aware of the social injustice.

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  16. Milkman is partly responsible for the way his life is because he could take action in any day by “buying a plane ticket”, but he never does. As boring as his life is, it is also a comfortable life since he has “friends and... picnics on Honoroe Island”, not to mention his father’s money. Furthermore, the fact that he has no goals, dreams, or motivation for “There was nothing he wanted bad enough to risk anything for” makes his life appear “pointless”. However his family is also to blame. The way his family treats each other and others leaves little way for a breath of fresh air. They do not seem to care for Milkman nor for each other. They themselves cannot seem to find happiness or to want it bad enough for that matters. Their only concern is to project the image of a wealthy family.

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  17. It is of course Milkman's fault behind his "boring" life. He does not want to accept reality. He is in denial. Just because his family was oh so serious doesn't mean he has to be. He could have branched off and been different. And its like he doesn't care how others feel about his actions. Him and Hagar started when he was young and since then he just felt like he could come in and out of her life anytime he wanted to. His whole life he was given whatever he desired, but in the real world it does not work that way. That is something he has to realize. He only cares about himself and if someone tries to help him, he always has to be right. Maybe his environment has a little to do with how he acts because of the expectations they have, but then again you cannot give them full credit behind his actions and the way he is and the person he wants to be.

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  18. Milkman himself has some responsibility for feeling that his life is “boring” and “pointless.” Milkman has been guided his whole life. He has been introduced to a life to middle class parties, friendships and lifestyle. He has been spoonfed all his life and given all that he asked for. He had no inspiration financially for his future, “he couldn't get interested in money. No one had ever denied it.” Even though he wants to stop living under his father's shadow Milkman doesn't do anything to change that even though “he was bored[of his lifestyle].” Ironically enough he blames his lack of inspiration in his belief of having a safe future with his “father's business.”

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